Flea and tick spot on treaments

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sl_simpson
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Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby sl_simpson » Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:46 pm

Hi everyone

Found an interesting article on Dog.com about the USA Environmental Protection Agency doing investigations into the spot on treatements for animals, due to a high number of reported incidences from mild skin irritaions to seizures.

 link below

http://dogs.about.com/b/2009/04/17/news ... oducts.htm

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby Teddy » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:23 am

mmmm.... this seems a bit general for my liking though?.... however I do wonder about the whole flea control effect on the pets as it seems quite extreme way of getting rid of fleas.... perhaps more research into what chemicals are used would help me out more... i.e. what are the chemicals used in flea controls and how does each of the chemicals actually effect your pets health..... also what are alternatives to using these flea controls and what kind of research is done, or regulation .... for instance are all of these products put through testing or are they simply push through to the shelves while ongoing tests are done.... are there actually natural flea controls - there must be as dogs were living in the wild for many years dealing with fleas... though i guess the house is quite different from the wild...

where do dogs get there fleas from?? if your home is rid of fleas and your dog doesn't have any, how can your dog get fleas?? they dont magically appear, they must be brought in..... I think perhaps flea products are a security measure aswell.... preventing the spread or catching of fleas..... maybe other places we should be looking is how to deflea our homes.... i think majority of fleas either live in our carpets, or are brought in from outside sources.... if you have a cat - I would think because they roam and meet other cats then they would carry fleas more than dogs.... cat finds a nice warm place to sleep in your home and spreads it.... so its more important aswell to keep up with your cats flea treatment-- i think sometimes we overlook good cat flea control as they tend to look after themselves better than dogs.... or don't make as much fuss....

anyway i might do some research into more indepth stuff to do with fleas.... see what i can find - probably again another whole area on the new dog site  ;)

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby amymac » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:06 pm

I must admit the last time I put Advantage multi on Riley the chemical smell was really overwhelming for the whole day which made me worry. The instructions say it may stain fabric as well and I thought - wow I just put that on my dogs skin. So I can understand people's concern about these products.

However, I will look forward to all FDAs report on the treatments because I have to wonder if some of the reported problems are coincidence effects. EG. 50 million households in the US own dogs, most of those dogs have monthly flea treatments. ie 12 treatments a year. Some of those dogs just by coincidence are going to die or have seizures or some adverse event. It is natural for those dogs owners to then look back at the last medical treatment that they were exposed to (very likely to be flea treatment) and wonder if that is the cause. But is it really the cause? that is what the FDA has to decide. If there is increased publicity around the issue then the rate of reporting goes up - that's natural and responsible owners and vets are being wise to do that. But increased reports does not necessarily indicate a causative effect. The FDA needs to look at the statistics and see whether the rate of seizures in dogs treated with say Advantage are higher than dogs not treated or treated with something else.

The same thing happens with human vaccines. When a new vaccine in particular comes out every single adverse event afterwards gets reported just in case it is relevant. eg. for the new cervical cancer vaccine all the deaths within a month or so get reported even car accidents and suicides. They are unlikely to be related but the Ministry of Health is extra cautious just in case.

Hope this made sense.
I guess what I'm saying is don't draw any conclusions yet as the evidence is not yet in.

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby Kiwipyjamas » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:08 pm

Hi all,

I share the concerns about all the chemicals and what they may be doing to us and our pooches.... always concerns me with my toddler getting all over Lois when I've put that stuff on.   I totally understand what you are saying,  AmyMac, my husband is a scientist and would entirely agree!  I have had bad family experieces with pesticide type chemicals.....so, I'm always erring on the natural side...

Teddy, if you can get hold of a copy of Dr Pitcairn's, A Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats, he has a decent list of common chemicals used and their effects.  From what I understand, Dogs in the wild move their den every couple of days, so that they avoid a lot of flea pest issues.

In case anyone is interested and at the risk of sounding like a preachie hippie type - I did a bit of research on the internet and have had it backed up by a dog naturopath who we happened to have for puppy training.  She lives in Auckland and said she has only had to resort to spot-on variety treatment about twice in her 10 year old dog's life.  She says she puts 1 tablespoon of apple cider vinegar in her dog's water every day (she has a lab-sized dog) and she sprinkles some brewers yeast on the food every day.  I have started Lois on the apple cider vinegar as apart from being a flea deterrent (they don't like the taste of the blood) its a really good tonic for their digestion.  She doesn't seem to mind it at all.... I only put about a teaspoon in at the moment.  I've also tried Flee Free, from the pet shop, it's got brewers yeast and garlic in it....Lois is not a fan though!  I also put a couple of drops of lavender on her collar every week.  I am not game enough yet to completely dispense with the spot-on, but I'm trying to lengthen the time between applications.

Do I sound like a mad hippie??

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby amymac » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:16 pm

No, you don't sound like a mad hippie at all. I probably wouldn't go the natural route just because I am too lazy to test things out and I like proven effect! But by all means I think things are worth trying as long as they are not going to harm your dog. I hope the cider vinegar and brewer's yeast works well.
My father in law takes apple cider vinegar for gout and swears by it. I have no idea whether it is placebo effect or not, but he is a convert.

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby Kiwipyjamas » Mon Apr 27, 2009 3:33 pm

No, I don't think there's any laziness involved, I am still sitting on the fence!!!! As you said, there isn't any really proven alternative... It's really hard because, although anecdotally the brewers yeast and vinegar works, if it doesn't, you end up with house full of fleas and have to use one of those revolting flea bombs....which has got to be worse!!!! As you said, need to test it out...think I'm going with the slowly, slowly, gradual approach!  ;D

BTW, Riley looks like he has fairly dense fur!?! Do you have any hints and tips for brushing and/or brushes that work.  Poor Lois's fur is so dense that it needs daily brushing and gets knotty even in a day on her legs! We have a slicker brush but she hates it and attacks it.  :(
 

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby amymac » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:28 pm

The groomer has commented that his fur is really thick. I am a very bad puppy mother because I don't brush it at all! I have noticed he is starting to get knots on his tummy so I really need to start but actually it is easier to keep him clipped off and cut out the knots. Riley likes to eat his brush which is the main reason for the lack of grooming - at some point I just gave up.

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby Teddy » Mon Apr 27, 2009 6:56 pm

yeah this is why i'm currently building a much larger dog site cause I would love to have a whole section on alternatives to the flea products... This forum is fine, but it doesn't allow for groups or blogs etc etc..... there is also a fossilised rock sediment, i can't recall what they call it, but you can sprinkle this around the home and possibly on your dog and it basiclly dehydrate the fleas and its harmless to humans and pets.... im kinda the same with things like spider and homes, rather than sparying your home there are some great deterances which prevent them walking through a window.... some other interesting things are that fleas don't live on your pet, and they generally lay there eggs in your home as there eggs fall off the dogs. There eggs can stay around for up to 1 year before hatching then they turn into the larvae stage which again can last for a year. Adult fleas only need to drink blood about once every 2 months. Like most parasitic things fleas will usually only attack those animals which are not in the greatest health or have a low immune system - survival of the fitest basically.... research has apparently found that if an animal is unhealthy the first place you notice it is in the skin. Usually dogs which get attacked by fleas or have "allergies" have a thiner skin that those which don't react to fleas as badily.... fleas will find it harder to bite into thicker skin.... hence a healthy dog will naturally rid fleas..... healthyness usually will come from the dogs diet - its activity - and its behaviour. If you don't add varity to your dogs diet then it might lack all the nurtition it requires or would naturally get fossicking around in the wild.... activity - your dog requires regular walks to maintain its physic and also to get rid of any energy which tends to turn into hypo behaviours or stress.... behaviour - you need to make sure your dog is a calm balanced dog or else it will stress, and right now i think alot of us know what stress does to us in everyday life from work, to money, to relationships.... however we all know how to calm ourselves down whether it be green tea  ;) or exercise.... or something else....

so a healthy dog should naturally fend fleas and also keeping your home or den clean will keep your dog flea free.... I definitly will try this with teddy, as i think the flea treatment i have him on it way to toxic.... we do quite abit of sea fishing now and usually bring back a few Kahawai for the dogs - and our selves... so it will be interesting to see how this in his diet will help him - ps my fishing blog is : www.raumatibeach.co.nz/fishing_info/ for all you keen fisher people  ;)

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Re: Flea and tick spot on treaments

Postby Kiwipyjamas » Tue Apr 28, 2009 10:31 pm

Hi Teddy,

FYI the natural stuff to sprinkle on your floors is diatomaceous earth (make sure its not the one for pools!)- I love Dr Pitcairn, he rocks!  I put advantage on Lois last night, I hate it! Also went and bought a bandana today to cover up where it was so that the toddler can't touch it. I found the most ridiculous looking one I could find....fluro, with little pictures of jandals / thongs (depending on your side of the ditch!) Glad that you are going to try to go au naturale, I'm such a wooss, it might give me a push to do it properly!   ;D


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