Bitter Apple

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Sophie Schaaf
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Bitter Apple

Postby Sophie Schaaf » Thu Jan 01, 2009 6:38 pm

Has any one tried it as a biting nipping repellant?
Last edited by Sophie Schaaf on Thu Jan 01, 2009 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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doyle and mollie
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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby doyle and mollie » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:06 pm

you should never have to use a repellant on your dog at all!! nor should you want to :o if baxters nipping/mouthing he may be teething this behaviour is not a sign of a bad dog. alot of these things will sort themselves out with puppy school. you need to ring barkley manor as they dont always respond to emails.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby amymac » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:36 am

Excuse the strange time I am posting - I work really weird hours.
I tried a repellent from the supermarket (not sure what brand - just called pet repellent) . I think it may be the same thing as bitter apple as it smelled like this. I tried spraying it on a few cords and things to stop Riley chewing them. I really didn't find it particularly successful. After a day he got used to the smell.

As for nipping and mouthing people  - this has been a huge problem for Riley and us and we are only now growing out of that stage at 4 months old. There are lots of things you can do about it. Will post again tomorrow with what we have tried (particularly the successful stuff).

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Sophie Schaaf
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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby Sophie Schaaf » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:21 am

you should never have to use a repellant on your dog at all!! nor should you want to :o if baxters nipping/mouthing he may be teething this behaviour is not a sign of a bad dog. alot of these things will sort themselves out with puppy school. you need to ring barkley manor as they dont always respond to emails.


My husbands youngest daughter is quite anxious when i tell her he's mouthing and what to do (ust make her more appealing to him has she's more active) but she still wants to be able to play with him. I didn't realize have a bad taste associated with your hands was a bad thing. But thank you for letting me know.
Last edited by Sophie Schaaf on Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby doyle and mollie » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:45 am

hi sophie

ive been thinking about your question re how long should be in the crate
we didnt crate train doyle so im no expert but i am worried you may be relying on the crate too much. my take on it is the crate should represent a safe haven to baxter - his space - where he can go for some time out etc - making it his only space maybe causing you the problems ie by soiling in it etc baxter is showing hes confused and probably indicating to you that hes in there too long - is your intentions to get baxter to the stage that he can roam the apartment free while you are not home??

is it possible for you to buy some baby barriers and designate a room that he can be free in while you are not home?

it sounds wierd but you are going thru a phase of trust and respect once both you and baxter have gained each others you will be amazed at the results... hes still very young but they are very smart...

in answer to your question... how long?... i think a closed crate inside your apartment is too long... but others who use crates inside may disagree.... what do you all think

would LOVE to see pics of baxter can you post he looks so much like doyle when doyle was a bubba... maybe you can post some crate pics as well to help us understand the set up and remember its better to ask too many questions than none at all  ;D
Last edited by doyle and mollie on Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby doyle and mollie » Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:28 am

hi again

sophie, you and your husband may also find cesar millans programme 'the dog whisperer' a lot of help its on tonight (saturday) on prime at 7.30pm... his website is also very good
http://www.cesarmillaninc.com/

to quote cesar "Crating a puppy all the time until it is big enough is absolutely the wrong thing. Crating doesn’t create social skills – and social skills are what are going to get him through."

sophie i hope you dont think im bombarding you with messages of 'you are doing it wrong' we are all learning here on the forum thats why it is so good... our wee fury friends present us with new challenges daily... doyles way of saying he didnt like his routine changing with us being home all the time was to start pooing inside @#$%!!....the joys they bring us  ;D

you are welcome to private message me too if you like

 :)
Last edited by doyle and mollie on Sat Jan 03, 2009 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby amymac » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:25 pm

For children I keep Riley on a very short lead so that I can stop him jumping or mouthing. If it is very little babies I get their parents to hold them for the introduction and while I keep Riley's mouth away from the baby they help baby to pat Riley's rump. We have alot of friends with small babies and they all cope differently. Some I have been able to have Riley in the room on a lead settled at my feet. On some occasions I have briefly crated Riley while babies are on our floor.

For older children I ask them to only pat Riley when all 4 of his feet are on the floor (the 4 paw rule) therefore not rewarding jumping. If he jumps they are asked to cross their hands in front of them and look at the sky. it means their hands are safe from nipping and Riley gets ignored therefore stops jumping. This usually eliminates the out of control excitement that leads to nipping. At this stage I wouldn't let children play with Riley with his toys without supervision as this is the other time he may be tempted to nip. But dont fret because we have seen enormous changes in Riley over time and his manners around children just keep improving.

At 11-12 weeks there was no way Riley would be able to sit still and allow prolonged cuddling from a child - he had too much energy so don't expect Baxter to be able to do this.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby doyle and mollie » Sat Jan 03, 2009 2:39 pm

the other thing to remember is dogs naturally 'play' with their mouths so its more about making the pup understand whats good play and bad play... and teaching them to control their mouths and pressure of their jaws... while they have puppy teeth its hard cos they are like needles but when they are relaxed you can start to allow them to mouth your hand if they get too rough just simple say no and pull your hand away... then put it back allowing them to again mouth it and praise when its gentle if that makes sense... we developed a game with doyle that we call land shark which is controlled play using his mouth and our hands and we say the words arf arf arf... a swishy sound while waving our hands around his muzzle he chases the hand and when you let him get it mouths it gently and then licks... warning! it took a while and alot of patience to get him to this stage mind you...

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby Lily » Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:36 pm

I really like Riley's 4 paw rule thats a good one! I might borrow that one myself!  :)
For the mouthing. A good way you can discourage Baxter from it is when playing with him with a toy when he accidentally bites you instead of the toy then play stops immediately without you saying anything and just ignore him until he's settled. He'll soon figure out that mouthing is fine, just not on you!

Have you considered getting a dog behavourist to come to your home and give you some advise? It can be very helpful for new puppy owners, even though you dont have any problems at the moment but to get you on the right track. I'm not from Auckland so not able to reccommend anybody, but I'm sure someone else will know?? If not then I can find out for you.

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Sophie Schaaf
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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby Sophie Schaaf » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:25 pm

oh wow that sounds great if anyone knows one I'd love to try. I'd like reassurance from someone who knows as i find it so hard with my husbands children they just don't listen so it makes it that much harder

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby amymac » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:32 am

The 4 paw rule comes from Puppies For Dummies. Sophie this is a really good book. I got it out of the library when I got Riley. It pretty much has something on all the things you have been worried about. It has a whole chapter on dogs and children - would be well worthwhile.
I keep meaning to buy it because the library wanted it back :(

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby amymac » Sun Jan 04, 2009 12:42 am

Image

Image

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Sophie Schaaf
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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby Sophie Schaaf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 7:52 am

Oh my gosh what a good boy ok will order it from the library tomorrow

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Sophie Schaaf
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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby Sophie Schaaf » Sun Jan 04, 2009 8:12 am

oh wow that sounds great if anyone knows one I'd love to try. I'd like reassurance from someone who knows as i find it so hard with my husbands children they just don't listen so it makes it that much harder


was it dog training for dummies? or puppies for dummies? the library is open today but dog training is the only one coming up.

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Re: Bitter Apple

Postby amymac » Sun Jan 04, 2009 1:58 pm

http://www.thenile.co.nz/books/Sarah-Ho ... 470037171/

The lady who took my puppy preschool also comes out to houses to deal with "problem dogs". Her name is Tanya and you could get hold of her through the Forrest Hill Vet Clinic. I would be tempted to try puppy school first though because you will probably get alot of advice there.


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